In February, Michael Goode made an excellent video blog post on the learning curve for trading. MarketMonk responded with an equally excellent comment, eluding to how many people quit trading because they finally realize how difficult it is to trade with a sub-$25K account.
I want to expand on the importance of trading capital, and how a lack of capital can be a big hindrance to your progress. There are many ways that a lack of capital can make things more difficult:
1. The Pattern Day Trader Rule. If you have an account of less than $25K, then you are limited to 3 day trades per week. This can impede your progress in many ways. First, it doesn't leave you much room for error. I've had many times where I entered a trade that I shouldn't have entered. As soon as I realized I shouldn't have entered, I had to use up a day trade to get out of the trade. You can use up your 3 day trades per week pretty fast that way. Second, you might miss other good trading opportunities because you can't risk getting into a trade in the middle of the day and being forced to hold overnight when out of day trades. Interactive Brokers won't even let you enter a trade if you're out of day trades; sometimes I like to make trades right before the market close, but IB won't let me do that and thus I've missed opportunities that way.
Now, this doesn't mean you can't make progress under the PDT. It just makes it much more difficult, and makes progress much slower. Tim Sykes took $12K and turned it into over $25K in 2008-2009; however, he wasn't strictly under the PDT because he was using Thinkorswim, and Thinkorswim was very lax at the time about the PDT. In fact, I remember making 2-3 day trades each day with TOS in 2008 and never got in trouble for it (I have no idea how TOS got away with that). So while Tim still would've eventually turned the $12K into $25K, it would've taken him much longer with another broker (or if TOS had actually been enforcing the rule like they do now).
2. Day Trade Buying Power. Many people think of the pattern day trader rule when it comes to a sub-$25K account, but there's more that limits you than just that. You also have to deal with the limitations in buying power. It's very easy to generate a day trade margin call if you liquidate an overnight position, and then use those funds to make a day trade with. This has happened to me more than once. This happens even if you have 3 day trades available to you. To guard against this, you have to look at your buying power when holding an overnight position. For example, yesterday I held ROHI long overnight in my TOS account. My overnight stock buying power was reduced to around $700 when holding that position. That means that, even though I sold ROHI today and did not make a day trade, I couldn't buy more than $700 worth of stock today. That amount is not worth making any trades with. I couldn't risk entering a position in the middle of the day, knowing that I may have to exit in the same day (and thus risk incurring a margin call). So I was stuck to only being able to enter positions near the close, that I knew I would hold overnight. This was despite the fact that I had 3 day trades available in my TOS account. This can be frustrating when you see opportunities that you can't take advantage of.
This can be more of a problem if you have multiple small accounts, like I do (I have 4 accounts currently). Except for my Cy Group account, I have to constantly monitor my other accounts so that I don't incur a margin call, as my position sizes in each account are very close to my max buying power. The nice thing about multiple accounts is I at least get that many more day trades (and a better chance of finding borrows as borrow availability can vary from one broker to the next).
Now, you might ask why I don't just use my Cy Group account for most of my trading. First, I can't trade OTCBB or pink sheets with that account. Second, I can't access it from work as I'm behind a firewall (I only trade with my Cy account in the morning before I go to work)....I can only use brokers that have web interfaces.
3. Limitations in Short Position Sizes. Many brokers won't let you short stocks under $3. Of the ones that do, like IB, you need to have $2.50 cash in your account for every share that you short. So if I have $4000 in my account, I can only short 1600 shares of a $1 stock, even though it's only a $1600 position. This is particularly limiting if you want to short a sub-$1 stock (like a 50 cent one)....you can't take a position size big enough to make it worth it. So you may miss some of the sub-$1 pump and dumps (which there are a lot of).
4. Limitation in Positions and Position Sizes. This is a no-brainer. The more capital you have, the more and larger positions you can take. This increases the amount of money you can make. The most successful traders I see, like Michael Goode, have accounts of $100 - $200K or more. It can be tough to match Michael's success when you don't have the capital that he does.
5. Can't Do It For a Living. Even though you can be profitable with a sub-$25K account, don't expect to be paying the bills with the profits. If you try to withdraw your profits, you won't be left with enough to trade with.
This is all not to say that you can't be successful with a smaller account. You can, but you definitely have an uphill battle and many obstacles to overcome (which is why I am continuously adding a bit of money to my accounts each week so that I will no longer have these obstacles).
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10 comments:
One of the most important things about having a lot of capital is that even if I take a large loss I still have adequate trading capital.
Plus it gives me the ability to hold longer-term positions or do trades that suck up a lot of buying power (like shorting a 14 cent stock, FRHV, last week, a trade that made me over $2500 in about an hour with little risk).
That is great info, but in my case, money does not grow on trees, nor was I born with a 6 figure bank account. You must have started with a relative small account, and grown it...yes? Some of us have no choice but to play with a small account. How about a game plan to help me build to that 100-200k account. My biggest problem lately is knowing how to take a profit, regardless of its amount. I told myself that if the profit was between $100-500 that I would sell. However, some trades go beyond that, and I just want it to keep going. How about some advice for that. Thanks man
Great post James. I did not know that TOS was so lax during that time period.
Dmoney, good luck with your quest to build up your trading account. Wish I could offer up a solution to knowing when enough is enough, don't think I will ever know the answer to that question myself.
MarketMonk,
Yes, TOS was very lax back then. You can see a discussion here about it back in 2008 on Tim's site:
http://www.timothysykes.com/2008/06/livestock-returns-tomorrow-1-2pm-est-with-some-changes/
DMoney,
Yes, I started with a small account, but my overall account sizes combined are still very small compared to people like Reaper, and I'm still under the PDT (except Cy Group which lets met trade their capital).
To build a small account, I'd say Tim Sykes's strategies are the best. You just have to be very selective and only wait for perfect opportunities.
Taking profits is an art form and takes experience, and I'm still learning the best times to take it versus waiting. Usually I'll take some profits when the stock looks like it's starting to stall, or maybe if it's reached a key resistance or support point.
Michael,
Thanks for the additional points on how capital helps you.
I will say that what is most important is having a system or methodology that can deliver consistent returns over a large # of trades. You will have losers as well as losing streaks. But to build any account you need that positive expectancy that the methodology provides. Tim's methods work (as well as a few variations thereof). Taking a sub PDT account and growing it above that level can take years.
Refrain from any "Hail Mary" type of plays to grow the account. Instead add outside funds as often as you can.
That's the only way I know how to grow the account properly.
Remember - education is more important than capital in the early trading years. Learning about the markets and yourself will pay huge dividends once you have the capital to exploit.
Trade well,
MM
MM,
Great comment. I know that's what I've been doing...adding a bit of money here or there to my accounts wherever I can.
And avoiding the hailmary plays is really important too. I like to follow Van Tharp's method of position sizing. Whenever I've broken that rule for position sizing and went in too big, it cost me.
Staying alive and in the game over the long run is so important. Survival is what separates the successful trader from the unsuccessful one. When I look back on Tim Sykes's posts back in 2008, it's amazing to find how many of those traders that commented on his blogs are now gone.
May I also add that during the learning stages, the importance of paper-trading to develop a trading method/edge which works is invaluable. You get to practice your method without worry. Then, add money after you have an edge which works for you. Mark Douglas, author of "Trading in the Zone" highly recommends this approach. I recommend this interview Mark did with Wizetrade TV... http://www.123learntotrade.com/showthread.php/1829-An-Interview-with-Mark-Douglas-on-Wizetrade-TV
Thanks. Glad to hear that you are following a sensible path.
It is no surprise to me that folks that try trading fail. My estimate is around 90% give up within the first year. The main reason imho is that their expectations are way to high (going to do this for a living) and that they do not have a system. We can't control the markets but we can control ourselves.
There are a lot of systems (methods) that work. I always recommend to everyone who is starting out to read Stockbee's free blog from his very 1st post on. So few do. Yet it probably has more nuggets of wisdom buried in those posts than all of the books I have read over the years. (and yes I have read every post of his, as well as saved them to a hard drive - that I since have lost when my laptop crashed)
To your point, those that survive past the early (newbie) years do go on to succeed.
So maybe one way to look at it is - maybe it is a good thing that they accounts are small (less damage can be done)?
Hi James,
I'm about to make the switch from prop to broker (specifically Interactive Brokers) and I remembered this post because it highlights the margin call stuff, something I have never had to deal with when I traded prop. I Just wanted to try to understand it better. For example, (I don't plan on using any leverage/margin by the way) if my account was 20k and I held 20k in stock from yesterday and exited that today at break-even, I would now have 20k in cash. But are you saying I couldn't use that 20k to make new trades without incurring a margin call?
Many thanks.
Jamal,
It depends on your broker. If you go with IB they automatically do all the overnight BP calculations for you in real time so you don't have to worry about it. Just remember with IB (or any other broker) you can't hold more than 2x leverage overnight (versus 4x leverage for day trading). IB will automatically liquidate positions about 15 minutes before the market close if you are going to exceed your overnight buying power.
With Speedtrader, you can't day trade with the cash that comes from liquidation of an overnight position. This will be reflected by your intraday buying power. So let's say you hold 20k overnight and have your next day day-trade buying power is 40K. Even if you liquidate the 20k overnight positions, you are still stuck with only 40K of buying power (i.e., it won't increase to 60K). You won't have your full day trading buying power until the next day.
I like IB the best in terms of all the buying power stuff; it's much more user-friendly and you know exactly where you stand in terms of margin, buying power, etc at all times. With Speedtrader, the software doesn't always correctly calculate things...one time I exceeded my overnight buying power and got a Reg T call even though the software said I was OK.
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